The Led Zeppelin-as-ripoff-artists debate continues. And for once we have a Zep defender and that’s great.
Pat writes (in a comment now posted under Tony’s previous views about rock plagiarism, Ozzy and Boston).
Oh, and by the way: anyone out there ever heard Jethro Tull’s We Used To Know (Stand Up album, late 1960s) and compared it to the Eagles’ Hotel California from 1976? Hmm.
Back to Pat and Zep. Here’s what Pat says:
Have you tried listening to the "originals"? While Black Mountain Side" is a straight rip-off of Jansch, "Dazed and Confused" takes its beginning from Jake Holmes (something The Yardbirds were doing before Zep), and some of The Lemon Song is a straight lift from Howlin' Wolf, the rest of Zep's end results have little in common with the rest when listened to in their entirety. The statement that "Custard Pie" and "Hats off to Harper" are both versions of the same song says it all,'cos they sure don't sound it!
Blogovich sez: I agree; the end results, the overall sound (you’re talking blues artists with guitar and that’s it for the most part coupled with poor recording technology versus a full rock band) etc. are in the end arguably different in Zep’s versions from those they, er, borrowed from. Memphis Minnie (whom Zep did credit) certainly didn’t have Bonzo’s drum pattern down in her original When the Levee Breaks, for instance.
And I never said I didn’t, or don’t, enjoy Zep’s music. I did and do. I grew up with it, as many of us did. It just rankles me that they blatantly ripped people off — even the new compilation, Mothership, gives Jake Holmes no credit on Dazed and Confused. Of course, Holmes long ago said something regarding Jimmy Page and the ripoff akin to: “he can have it.” Perhaps it wasn’t worth the trouble, battling Zep (and their arguably ill-gotten royalty money) in court over it. I just believe talented people should credit other talented people; doing so, (and this applies in any field) opens listeners ears up to more music and furthers the cause of music, or whatever the pursuit, overall. So in that sense ripping people off is a betrayal of the overall craft of music.
But I won’t go on; anyone following this thread or Zeppelin and the blues in even cursory fashion knows the rest.
Pat goes on:
Additionally, you sound very confident in your claim that, with regard to old blues artists borrowing,adjusting etc. old tunes, "Nobody ever did it to Zep's extent. Not even close." How do you know this? I would imagine it went on all the time.
Blogovich sez: Pat, I appreciate what you say but stand by what I say. I just don’t see such indiscriminate Zep-style borrowing elsewhere in popular music and I listen, read and play a lot of it. David Fricke of Rolling Stone magazine fame, who does a lot of Zep liner notes (Mothership, previous box sets) makes this point about blues artists in his defence of Zep and that’s fine and true to an extent. Just not to Zep’s extent, I maintain. Just give the various tunes a listen for lyrics, riffs, melodies and so on. I suppose we agree to disagree but am confident we can agree on enjoying the music. I will say I never had the chance to see Zep live and wonder if I would have enjoyed it anyway: I can live without a half-hour version of Dazed and Confused, much as I can live without a half-hour version of Deep Purple’s (another personal fave) 1970s concert renditions of Space Truckin’, which is an otherwise great tune. It will be interesting to see whether Zep, in their London reunion show, sticks more to the studio-length running times of their tunes. I’m not sure today’s audiences are as into the self-indulgence of the 1970s live versions.
But I appreciate the feedback; this ongoing Zep discussion continues to prove fascinating.
And speaking of the new Zep compilation Mothership (man, these reissues have me buying stuff I already have but I can’t seem to resist): anyone else out there having trouble with the bonus DVD version of the 2 CD set? Very poor packaging in terms of trying to dig the actual discs out of the holder. Let’s just say the package is very tight. So I wound up buying both — the DVD version which is a sampler of the How the West Was Won career DVD retrospective from 2003 — and the simple 2 CD version which is much easier to handle. That will be my “play” version of Mothership for the car; the other will likely just stay on the bookshelf. Yeah, of course they suckered me but I admit that while I love original album statements I'm a happy sucker for compilations, I guess for the liner notes.
Besides, what’s wrong with being a completist about rock music?